Mirrors are encouraged (see details below).
Copyright (c) 2006 All Rights Reserved
HP Hewlett Packard Financial Services, Corporate Spies, Spying;
Review of Hardware and Software, Our experiences
But what do we REALLY think of HP and it's virtually non-existent support?
Well say hallo to our liddo friend (about 2 megs .wmv)
This editorial contains and includes opinions regarding
Hewlett Packard Corporation & HP Financial Services
420 Mountain Ave., POB 6 Murray Hill, NJ 07974
Hewlett Packard Corporation and HP Financial Services
POB 402582, Atlanta, GA., 30384-2582
New development: If, after reading this page, you are STILL not convinced of HP's utter lack of honesty and professionalism, read this.
Should you buy an HP product?
No, Nyet, Nay, Nos, Never. Not bloody ever!
And here's why:
Welcome to Hewlett Packard Sucks
[Hewlett-Packard-Sucks.com]
NOTE: 3-27-06
This page has been re-written from the ground up, expanded, and clarified so as to be clear and comprehensive throughout. It has been sent to our First Amendment attorney, Elena Garella, for final approval. We expect to recieve the copy back any day, at which time it will be reposted as this domain (Hewlett-Packard-Sucks.com). This page had been posted on a ServePath server for several years, during which time Hewlett Packard apparently tried just about every sleazy legal trick they could think of to get this material removed. When those attempts failed, HP adopted a new tactic which involved essentially tricking ServePath into removing the content. ServePath, not being the brightest bulbs in the string, didn't even bother to find out if this content was legal, actionable, and permissable, but when asked to JUMP by HP, ServePath simply replied, "How high?" We immediately made arrangements to move ALL of our business away from ServePath. They then, immediately, wrote to us and asked if we could just "talk about all this", insinuating they'd made a mistake. By that time, however, we were disgusted, and simply pulled the plug on that band of boobs.
NOTE: 7-24-06
This content now resides on servers around the world. We fully expect HP to again begin a campaign of what is, in our view, harassment, aimed at somehow, in any way possible, regardless of legality or morality, removing this document from public view. However, if they succeed by trickery or deceit in shutting down one server, the content will simply be activated on another of a number of mirrors. The People (you) have a RIGHT to this data.
This document has spent the past four months being painstakingly scrutinized by the best 1st Amendment people in America (our opinion!). Every sentence, every phrase, every word has been scrupulously studied and approved for public consumption. THIS IS A LEGAL DOCUMENT AND ANY ATTEMPT TO HAVE IT REMOVED FROM PUBLIC VIEW WILL BE CONSTRUED AS AN ACT OF CRIMINAL HARASSMENT AND WILL BE DEALT WITH AS SUCH. Our suggestion to HP would be to stop giving us information to disseminate. Simple, right? Not to HP.
So without further ado, the material below represents our experiences with, and opinions of HP (Hewlett Packard) and HP Financial Services:
Does Hewlett Packard "suck"?
Yes. In spades.
HP sucks, it blows, it hurls, it is an insult to decency and professionalism. It is a pimple on the butt of competent business. HP is......the scum of the Earth.
Copyright (c) 2004 All Rights Reserved
This editorial contains and includes our opinions regarding
Hewlett Packard Corporation & HP Financial Services
420 Mountain Ave., POB 6 Murray Hill, NJ 07974Hewlett Packard Corporation and HP Financial Services
POB 402582, Atlanta, GA., 30384-2582--------------------------------------------------
Should you buy an HP product?
No, Nyet, Nay, Nos, Never. Not bloody ever!
And here's why:
In our view, based on many years experience, HP is a poorly run company producing barely useable products, mostly because of glitchy, unreliable, poorly engineered software and drivers, but to a lesser degree due to hardware which is declining in quality. Be that as it may, HP's biggest problem lies in its nearly non-existent support. Add to that a total lack of suitable financing through HP's financial arm, "HP Financial Services out of Atlanta and New Jersey", and you have the makings for a company which, if it doesn't change its ways, may be headed for a total corporate collapse.
This doc-set describes our experiences with HP's software, support, and hardware. The real meat of this endeavor, however, focuses on the worst (bar-none), most unreliable, most dishonest, unprofessional and downright scurrilous company we've ever attempted to do business with. We've owned businesses in three countries and most states west of the Mississippi. We've seen businesses so shoddily run that their practices make one physically cringe. But HP Financial Services beats them all, hands down, combined, and by an order of magnitude. Our appraisal of this rotten-to-the-core financial enterprize is contained herein.
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We're often asked, "What brand of printers are best?"
Every printing business in the world needs to be able to obtain the highest quality and most reliable printers at the most competetive prices to stay in business, and every printing company in the world needs good software and reliable support for those printers. Virtually every human being on the planet uses printed materials, so the question is important---and valid.
The answer is important and valid too -- though it isn't short or simple.
We've owned and used in business every major and minor brand of printer made or imported into North America since 1982. You'd think that would leave us in a position to know what was "best". Not so..
After horrendous disappointment using Canon products we dumped them. They make great cameras. Their printers suck rotten eggs. After tiring of paper feed problems, weak construction and driver glitches we dumped Epson also. Kodak printers haven't proven much better. Xerox has its problems---except that they seem to have at least figured out how to feed paper properly.
We were never keen on HP products. We've consistently had trouble with their computers, and we've experienced paper feed problems with every single (bar-none) HP printer we've ever owned which featured a paper feed mechanism. HP is also famous and renowned for its glitchy drivers, and we dare you to navigate their websites.
Still, we felt, for some unknown reason, that it might be important to stick with one manufacturer. Since HP offered the broadest range of products, we eventually decided upon HP. We bought HP computers, HP All-in-One machines, HP scanners, little HP printers, big, wide-format HP printers, HP peripherals, and we religiously bought only HP consumables (papers, inks, etc.). Our loyalty was total, though in retrospect, we can't imagine why.
Our first consideration in choosing hardware is the capability and durability of said hardware. With one exception we were not often disappointed in HP's printer hardware. HP scanners, computers, laptops and other peripherals are another story. What's the one "exception" noted above? It is that we have trouble with virtually every single HP printer's paper path. We do not experience this trouble with Xerox, and we experience it to a lesser degree with other major brands. We've begun to wonder if the same shoddy engineer has been designing the paper paths on all HP printers for the last 15 years. If so, he or she needs to be rooted out and FIRED. Otherwise, HP printers have held up for us, mechanically, and have produced reasonable (not great) print.
Unfortunately, all printers need printer drivers, and this is the first area in which HP falls flat on their collective faces. If their printer hardware gets four stars out of five, their drivers and software earn barely one star. Perhaps HP designs their print drivers to be problematic so that the user will ruin reams and rolls of media with unexpected results, so HP can sell more paper. HP drivers are simply the worst. If you're not insane or apoplectic before you begin trying to run a print shop on HP's drivers, you will be shortly thereafter. We guarantee it.
But bad software can be offset by good support, right? Sure it can, at least to a degree. Unfortunately, HP's support is worse than their software. For all intents and purposes, we found HP support to be virtually non-existent. Note that over a roughly five month period in 2003, we could not entice HP to reply to us ONE TIME, no matter how many times we demanded a reply by registered mail. Finally, in profound exasperation, we served them with a notice of intent to file suit. HP then replied and solved the relatively simple matter (a batch of bad toner cartridges). Why did it require dozens of registered letters and threats of lawsuits to obtain this stupefying simple fix? Because that's simply how HP does business. Here are just a few paragraphs we've fired off to HP in a fit of apoplexy, demanding that they support their product:
Hewlett-Packard Company
3000 Hanover Street
Palo Alto, CA 94304-1185 USAThis request for technical support comes to your address because we are unable to contact tech support using the HP website. The HP website is utterly famous for not working, and for being, generally, of little or no value. This will be a factor in our decisions as to whether or not to continue to buy HP printers for our business. We ask that this request be forwarded to the appropriate department. This comes to you with delivery confirmation, number 0103 8555 7490 9081.
Re: our HP Laserjet 5500DN, purchased new, ser. #XXXXXXXXX:
When the printer is cold, it prints multi-colored speckled bands across all pages, edge to edge, with no margin (full bleed) (see samples enclosed). We are forced to run no less than 40 sheets through it before print clears up. Once fully warmed up in this manner, print will remain clear until printer is allowed to cool down again. We must do this every time we use the printer, even if it has not been used for two hours. We've researched this on the net and have concluded that it is almost certainly due to faulty (possibly leaking) toner cartridges. Everyone who has experienced this problem with this specific printer says it stops when new cartridges are installed (we're using the cartridges that came with the printer new, which are about 60% full). No phone calls, please---email only. We like things in writing.
Because of this problem, this printer has been of extremely limited use to us. We are not willing to continue to struggle with this printer if the problem cannot be solved. It is a lease, and if you are unwilling to make it work correctly, you may simply pick it up.
[Signature]
1-4-04
When we received NO REPLY to the above, we tried again:
Hewlett-Packard Company
3000 Hanover Street
Palo Alto, CA 94304-1185 USAProof of Delivery: USPS-010385557492
Re: our HP Laserjet 5500DN, purchased new, ser. #JPEK001236(1) We began having trouble with this printer immediately upon purchase. The attached letter, dated 1-4-04, describes the problem fully. That letter included a set of sample pages; a new set of sample pages is enclosed herewith.
(2) We began attempting to contact support via the HP website; however, as this website is world renown for not working, we were unable to make contact with support in this manner.
(3) On 1-4-04, now thoroughly dusgusted (read: angry) we wrote to HP demanding that a solution be found (see attached dated 1-4-04).
(4) We received a written reply from HP which, of course, made no attempt whatsoever to address the problem, but directed us to call the HP support line at 800-756-0608 and use option #7. That letter was dated 1-16-04 and we received it on 1-20-04.
(5) Since 1-20-04 we have called this number repeatedly. In no instance have we been able to speak with a live person, but have, in every case, been forwarded to voicemail. We clearly left our number for a return call. We repeated our number several times for clarity. We continued to call this number repeatedly over the next days, up until 1-28-04. In no instance, on no occasion, have we received a return call from HP. Surprise.
(6) Failing a resolution of this problem by 2-13-04, we will cease making payments on this printer. The regular payment amounts will be sent to our attorney for placement in a trust account pending resolution of this problem.
Perhaps that will get HP’s attention and convince them to begin supporting their products. For the record, we can be reached at XXXXXXXXXX, generally from 12 noon to 10 p.m. Pacific time.
In growing disgust and contempt,
[Signature]
1-28-04CC: Attorney General; Better Business Bureau; Posted to Internet
We did finally receive a reply to the above letter, and the problem was corrected (HP supplied a set of toner cartridges to replace the faulty series). Why couldn't they have done this MONTHS before? We don't know.
If Hp hardware gets four stars, and HP software gets one flickering star, HP support gets half a star. It is so bad, in our view, should qualify for the term "criminal".
We've endured numerous problems with HP like the one described above -- far too many to count or remember. Those problems in and of themsevles would have been enough to begin steering us away from HP products. But we were to glean an insight into how the company works internally, through HP Financial Services, and our experiences with those outrageous folks makes us run in terror from any suggestion of ever doing business with HP again.
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If Hp hardware gets four stars, and HP software gets one flickering star, HP support gets half a star. It is so bad, in our view, should qualify for the term "criminal".
It naturally follows that most businesses who buy high-end printers and other hardware want to lease or otherwise finance them. We like leases if the terms are right. We especially like the $1 buy-out leases from HP. We get some insurance perks by leasing, some marginal tax benefits, and it's an easy way to get into some equipment we might not otherwise use.
HP offers its own financing through a division called "HP Financial Services" (see address above) in New Jersey.
Now listen carefully: If HP's hardware gets four stars, and HP's software gets barely one star, and HP's support gets half a star, then HP's financial services gets MINUS ONE HUNDRED STARS.
Is that a harsh appraisal? We couldn't think of harsher terminology without lapsing into a fit of obscenities, foaming at the mouth, and the like.
This outfit (HP Financial Services) is, in our view, THE most, bar-none, unprofessional, lackadaisical, dishonest, incompetent, worthless, valueless, dumb and stupidly-run company in operation on the planet today. It's an abyss of chaos, backwardness and evil. Let us document our case, below.
The reader should understand a few things at the outset: (1) We bought 4 pieces of HP equipment that were financed through HP Financial Services, (2) All payments, every single one without exception, was paid out by our bank or was debited automatically from our accounts; in no case did we ever make payments by hand-written check except to replace checks HP Financial had lost, and in those cases we sent the checks by registered mail, (3) We have never been so much as one day late on any payment to HP Financial Services; this is a fact which HP Financial Services no longer disputes. Every single payment was sent to HP Financial Services early, often as much as two months early, and we certainly have the records to prove that.
The letters shown below, to HP Financial Services, begin at a point significantly into our troubles with this company. For several years prior to the letters below we had been fighting with HP Financial Services to stop them from trying to collect "late fees" they were not entitled to, or to once and for all get our address correct (this took roughly two years of registered letters), etc. etc. ad nauseam. At the point of the first letter shown below we had already concluded that HP Financial Services was utterly insane, from the bottom to the top, and we could barely mask our outrage, contempt, amazement and hatred. Sometimes, by this point, we didn't even try. The documents represented below may be whole or partial docs, to keep the reading to a minimum:
Hewlett Packard Financial Svcs
Compaq Financial Services
420 Mountain Ave., POB 6
Murray Hill, NJ, 07974Overnight Express EO000864908US
Enclosed you will find check number 6416 in the amount of $234.45.
This check is being sent to you because, for the second month in a row, you have apparently LOST the original check! Last month, you finally found it (oh silly you!). This month, you cannot seem to be capable of finding it at all. So we have stopped payment on the original check (#6413, issued on 8-3 and mailed on 8-4-03). Your incompetence has cost us $26 for the stop payment fee, plus whatever late charge you assess to this. While you may have “accidentally” misplaced our check last month for two weeks, we simply do not believe that you could be that stupid, inefficient, incompetent and lackadaisical two months in a row. Or could you.
This comes to you by overnight express so we will have the means to PROVE you actually received it.
This account is set up with an automatic pay system. Checks to make the lease payments on this printer are issued from a financial institution. The institution guarantees (in writing) that they provide proof of delivery. This means, folks, that the next time you pull this crap, we will send YOU a bill for the time it takes us to straighten it out. Think we won’t? Just keep on thinking that. What’s that, you say? You won’t pay? That’s what small claims court is for, and trust us when we say we are versed in its use, even from across the country. We will track every minute of the time spent straightening out your stupid mistakes, and we will sue you by proxy and recover every cent. Oh---you won’t pay the judgment? Then we’ll attach your property until you do pay..
We wouldn’t be ten percent this angry had we not endured a most unpleasant interaction with one of your people today. You started calling us a week or more [ago] about this late payment---I recall it was on the 11th (the day after the due date). You left a message and we called back within the hour. Of course you could not be reached (surprise) so we left a message asking for you to call and tell us what the problem was. You did call, but instead of telling us what the problem was, you simply left another message asking for a return call. We called back again, but of course you weren’t available. So, once again, we asked you to call us back, and if you reached our voice mail, to actually tell us what the problem was. So what did you do? You called and left yet another message asking for a return call, with no explanation. We called you back again, but of course you weren’t available---so we left a rather pointed message at 888-254-0006, ext. 6830. In response, some little pencil-neck jerk called us back and in a voice snippety enough to cost him some teeth in the real world, and he advised us that our complaints about not being called back were unfounded because, he said, we HAD been called back (and he rattled off the dates).
Well, just a minute here! Are ALL of your people brain-dead? Our complaint was not that you didn’t call back, it was that when you did call back you wouldn’t leave a message that explained anything! If your people are going to act like this, we’ll find another company next time we need commercial-sized printers.
It happens that we are stand-up people. If we do something wrong or make a mistake, we’ll own up to it, apologize profusely, and make it right. But we did nothing wrong in this case, nothing, and we’re damned angry that we’re being penalized for it!
[Signature]
8-19-03
Hewlett Packard Financial
POB 402582
Atlanta, GA., 30384-2582Proof of delivery #210385574916328
Attached find two sheets indicating two “late” charges on lease number XXXXXXXXXXXX.
Be advised that we have advised your office of a change of address over and over and over, both by email, and by registered mail. Once again, for the record, via registered mail, our current billing address is as follows:
XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXIn point of fact, you did receive the payments on time, and this is documentable through our bank. You merely applied them to the wrong account(s). Since the payments were made on time, and since it was your decision, not ours, to post them to an incorrect account, we are not willing to pay late charges. You may, of course, go ahead and remove the $32.76 from our account [for late fee charges], at which time we may, of course, appeal to your state’s attorney general’s office, and we may file in small claims court by proxy to recover such funds, among other things.
Please note: If we receive one more bill addressed to our old and invalid address, we will send you yet another notification of the new address, by registered mail, like this one, and we will include with it a bill for the registered mail fees, and for the time required to draw up and post the letter.
[Signature]
5-19-04
Hewlett Packard Financial Services
420 Mountain Ave / POB 6
Murray Hill, NJ
07974 1-281-927-5885
CC: By Registered mailAt 13:51 hours on 7-8-04 we received a call at xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx from a woman in your office whose name may have been “Pat”.
When we tried to advise the woman that your office had been notified, in writing, via registered mail, to cease and desist contacting us by [phone], the woman became angry and interrupted. She then began spouting something about our request to have an account removed from the automatic payment system. When we tried to interject that no such request had ever been made the woman became even more rude and obnoxious and nearly yelled that “she had the notes right there”. She then began spouting off again. We tried to get her to stop so we could address one issue at a time, but she only became louder. We said, “Ma’am….ma’am….ma’am….” But she continued to speak more loudly still, until we finally just hung up.
Let’s put this to you bluntly: Are you people insane? Are you mentally handicapped? Are you just an office full of obnoxious idiots? Don’t like our choice of words? Then show us a hint of professionalism for God’s sake!
(1) Your office will never, ever contact us again by phone. Your people are rude. Your people are stupid. Your people are incompetent. Because of these factors, all interaction with you from this point forward will be in writing. There will be no exceptions. Failure to comply will result in an instantaneous criminal complaint. You have been instructed to cease and desist contacting us by phone. Period.
(2) Regarding someone’s imagined request that one or more accounts be taken off the automatic pay system, this is untrue and we have to believe your people know it. We do not believe your people made a “mistake” in this regard---we believe your people simply made this up in some ill-conceived attempt to cause us even more grief, confusion and aggravation. You have shown us over and over and over through the years that this is the mentality that prevails in your office. We have never asked that any of our accounts be taken off the auto-pay system. We are demanding, herewith, that you mail us documentation of this woman’s allegation. What “notes”, exactly, is this woman referring to? We want to see them.
(3) It appears that you have taken one or more accounts off the auto-pay system. You probably did so, so that you could claim these accounts were unpaid, and so that you could charge another late fee for them. Make no mistake: If you have done this, we will see you prosecuted for fraud. Any account you have taken off the auto-pay system should be placed back on the auto-pay system without delay. If you attempt to charge a late fee due to this, you will be sued.
(4) We have an in-process complaint against your office for cheating us out of two late charges in an unrelated matter. This has been submitted to the Attorney General’s office. We may well hire a [New Jersey] attorney to sue you for those charges by proxy. We will seek to recover time and costs as well. If we are forced to hire a [New Jersey] attorney, that will put us in a better position to handle any new problems you create in the future---and we fully expect you to do so.
There is something systemically wrong in your office. It can probably be traced back to the personnel manager. Stupid personnel managers tend to hire stupid employees, who then tend to get their stupid friends hired as well. Whatever the problem is, we’re not going to continue to be the victims of it. You folks need to get it together, stop pulling cheesy, underhanded stunts, and just do your jobs.
[Signature]
CC: Internet posting; attorney; Attorney General
Hewlett Packard Financial Services
420 Mountain Ave / POB 6
Murray Hill, NJ
07974 1-281-927-5885
CC: By Registered mailAs of 15:14, on 7-9-04, we are continuing to log repeated calls from your office. The caller is continuing to call, as fast as they can dial, over and over again. We anticipate many more calls before this caller gives up.
We’re sorry you did not heed our demand that you cease and desist calling us by telephone.
This demonstrates, and documents, the mentality we are dealing with in your office.
At this time we are herewith demanding, again, that you cease and desist calling us.
At this time we are contacting the police in your city to ask for emergency relief.[Signature]
7-9-04CC: Internet posting; attorney; Attorney General
Hewlett Packard Financial Services
420 Mountain Ave / POB 6
Murray Hill, NJ
07974 1-281-927-5885
CC: By Registered mailAs of 15:07, on 7-9-04, we have logged five (5) calls from your office. The caller is continuing to call, as fast as they can dial, over and over again. We anticipate many more calls before this caller gives up.
We’re sorry you did not heed our demand that you cease and desist calling us by telephone.
This demonstrates, and documents, the mentality we are dealing with in your office.
At this time we are herewith demanding, again, that you cease and desist calling us.
At this time we are drafting a formal criminal complaint of telephone harassment.[Signature]
7-9-04CC: Internet posting; (attorney); Attorney General
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Since HP Financial Services refused to reply to us in writing re the wrongly-charged late fees which they had forcibly removed from our bank account, we appealed to our bank for relief. We can't count the number of times we'd been reduced to this already, so we were less than polite in our references to the jokers at HP Financial Services:
AlaskaUSA Bank
2401 4th Ave. #100
Seattle, Wa. 98121Once again, we’re contesting the charge shown below:
07/08/04 ACH WITHDRAWAL COMPAQ CAPITAL TYPE: LEASE PMT DATA: 07-07-04CFSCOMMER $ -32.76
Note that this identical charge was contested about a month ago. Alaska/USA sent us a form to complete to have that particular charge stricken from our account. We did complete the form, and the charge was removed. We then advised the offending institution (HP Financial) that their charge was formally contested, and that they may not debit our account again for that particular charge. They are free (encouraged) to ask a judge to decide the merit or lack thereof of their claim; they may NOT continue to simply remove these funds from our account. HP Financial is staffed by people we consider to be little more than concentrated evil, so, without permission, and without even attempting to resolve the dispute over the fee, HP Financial simply removed the funds from our account again. The original debit, which was credited back, is shown below. We are now contesting the second debit, shown above.
06/17/04 ACH WITHDRAWAL COMPAQ CAPITAL TYPE: LEASE PMT DATA: 6-16-04CSFCOMME $ -32.76
At this time we must conclude that HP Financial is little more than a rogue institution. We are no longer willing to allow a rogue company access to our bank account. For instance, they may decide that we owe them a fee for some imagined transgression in the amount of $10,000, and we wouldn’t be surprised if they did, and then proceed to simply remove that amount from our account, and we would be left fighting and going to court for months or years to retrieve it. This possibility is unacceptable.
We ask at this time that we be sent another form which will serve to deny HP Financial access to our bank account for any reason, at any time, ever again. We will then make our lease payments by automated check, issued through our bill-pay program at Alaska/USA, instead of allowing them to remove the funds directly from our account.
Be advised this matter has already been sent to the New Jersey Attorney General. We are also filing a complaint of fraud against HP Financial with the Murray Hill (NJ) police department. The case is also being posted publicly on the Internet, and is being passed to HP Sales so they can begin to get an idea of what their customers go through when they buy HP equipment through this institution.
It should be noted that the contested late charge is in and of itself a trivial matter. These kinds of things come up from time to time between financial companies and their customers. Usually, they can be amicably resolved. If they can’t be amicably resolved, then they may be brought to court. That’s what courts are for. But when a company (HP) simply refuses to even discuss a matter, but simply continues to withdraw funds from a customer’s account which it has previously been forced to return, that signals a pattern of dishonesty and deceit that we won’t tolerate.
[Signature]
7-9-04CC: Internet, NJ Attorney General, HP Sales; HP Financial
Hewlett Packard Financial Services
420 Mountain Ave / POB 6
Murray Hill, NJ
07974 1-281-927-5885
CC: By Registered mailWe have discovered the following charge on our bank account:
Since the above amount matches the amount show below, representing two contested “late” charges, which you were legally blocked from withdrawing, we must assume you’ve simply, effectively, stolen from us again. Do you actually believe you’re going to get away with this?06/17/04 ACH WITHDRAWAL COMPAQ CAPITAL TYPE: LEASE PMT DATA: 6-16-04CSFCOMME $ -32.76
Since we have no accounts with you for which this amount would be correct, we must assume that you have once again illegally (in our humble opinion, of course) removed funds from our account for a contested “late fee”. If it turns out that is the case, and we’re sure it will, we will file a complaint with the [Murry Hill] police department, and we will legally block you from removing any funds, at any time, for any reason, from any account we hold. Payments for leases will be made, then, by automated check.
You have demonstrated to us over and over ad nauseam that you are little more than thieves. Sorry folks---we won’t abide thieves.
An accounting of our experiences with you is being prepared and will be made available to any interested party within the next few days. Copies will be distributed freely to HP Sales directors. They need to know what their customers are being subjected to when they buy through HP. If HP cannot offer a different financing solution in the future, we will not buy from HP again. Our entire shop is stocked with HP equipment, but our unbelievable interactions with you are enough to make us switch to any of the other printer manufacturers. We don’t know what your problem is---we don’t care. We’re simply tired of conflict after conflict after conflict with you, and we’re drawing the line here and now.
For a second time, we will have the above charge of $32.76 removed from our account within the next few days. We are seeking a [New Jersey] attorney at this time to protect us from [you] and what is, in our view, further fraud and theft, and to demand compensation for time wasted in this matter. You cannot take money from an account to which you are not legally entitled, which you have been warned by registered mail not to remove, which you have previously been blocked from removing, and which you were previously forced to give back! If you believe you are actually entitled to this contested late fee of $32, you may ask a judge to decide the case. We heartily encourage you to try. But you may NOT simply continue to remove it from our account, over and over, after it has been contested.
In continued disgust,
[Signature]
7 7-9-04CC: Internet posting; attorney; Attorney General
Hewlett Packard Financial Services
420 Mountain Ave / POB 6
Murray Hill, NJ
07974 1-281-927-5885
CC: By Registered mailSince your office steadfastly refuses to cease and desist withdrawing contested funds from our bank account, we have taken steps to prevent your access to that account. In approx 7-10 days you will be legally notified of this action.
In the meantime, we have three charges that need to be addressed:
(1) The contested amount of $32.76 will be credited back to our account by our bank. You have already received our objections to this fee by registered mail. The fee is as flatly wrong as it gets. If you desire to attempt to collect it from us, you must bring the matter before a judge for a legal determination. You are not now, nor will you ever be again, authorized to remove the sum of $32.76 from our account to pay for a bogus “late fee”. You were not authorized to remove it on either of the two occasions in which you did remove it, and this constitutes fraud.
(2) Lease #XXXXXXXXX; This is a lease of an XXXXXXXX printer. The next payment amount of $165 will come due sometime around the 20th of July, 2004. If you have been notified, by registered mail, by the time this payment comes due, that you are no longer authorized to access our account, then you MUST NOT ACCESS OUR ACCOUNT to retrieve this payment. To do so will be considered an act of willful theft and may subject those responsible to actual arrest. In this case, the payment will be set up on an automatic schedule with the checks being sent directly from our bank to you, as several of our other accounts are set up. If you HAVE NOT been informed by the time this payment is due, then you may go ahead and withdraw that amount ($163.80) and ONLY that amount from our account, for the July 2004 payment. After that, payments will come to you directly from our bank, by mailed bank check.
(3) Lease # XXXXXXXXX is for an XXXXXXXXX. The next payment comes due about 7-12, in the amount of $53.82. Since you will NOT have been informed to cease and desist accessing our account by then, you may allow this payment, and only this payment, to be withdrawn from our account. The August payment on this lease will come to you directly from our bank, in the form of a mailed check.
[Signature]
7-9-04CC: Internet posting; attorney; Attorney General
New Providence Police Dept
360 Elkwood Ave, New Providence, NJ
07974Please consider this a formal criminal complaint of telephone harassment by the following company:
Hewlett Packard Financial Services
420 Mountain Ave / POB 6
Murray Hill, NJ
07974
This company has removed funds from our bank account to which it was not entitled. –That’s a civil matter and we’re well equipped to handle it. Telephone harassment, however, which is the focus of this complaint, is a criminal offense.Unfortunately, our efforts to retrieve our funds have apparently angered this office, and in retaliation they began crank-calling my cellular phone a week or so ago. I am enclosing two of a larger number of letters I have mailed and/or faxed to this company demanding that they cease and desist, however they refuse to cease.
On 7-8 at 13:51 hrs., for instance, we received a most unpleasant call from this office and we hung up on them.
On 7-9-04, at 15:07 Pacific, we received five (5) hang-up calls in rapid succession. We faxed their office demanding that they stop---so at 15:17, ten minutes later, they started up again. We don’t know what it is about STOP that these people don’t understand.
As late as 7-12-04 we received yet two more harassing calls from this office, at 14:01 and again at 17:31 Pacific time---well after closing hours for that office located in New Jersey. On the second call today the woman caller identified herself as the office manager. She was advised, once again, to cease and desist, and we disconnected. We are now without the use of this phone, since we cannot turn it on without being harassed by this company.
We ask for a case number by return mail. We will forward any and all required documentation upon request. If required we will fly to New Jersey to testify. Contrary to what this company seems to think, we really do have the right not to be harassed by them.
If they have something to say, they’re welcome to put it in writing, or convey it through their attorney, so we’ll have a documented accounting of what is said and by whom. They may not make hang-up calls to my cellular phone; they may not contact me except in writing, ever again, for any reason whatsoever.
[Signature]
7-12-04CC: attorney, NJ Attorney General, BBB, HP Sales
Hewlett Packard Financial Services
420 Mountain Ave / POB 6 1-281-927-5885
Murray Hill, NJ 07974Registered receipt: 2103855574905905xxxx
On 7-16-04 we filed with our bank, Alaska/USA, to block HP Financial Services from withdrawing any funds from our account, for any reason, at any time, forever.This applies specifically to, but is not limited to, the following lease accounts:
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXWe have done this due to extreme (beyond comprehension) irregularities on the part of HP Financial Services. We no longer trust this company to have access to our bank account.
Summary:
Our problems began within a few days of first interacting with HP Financial some years ago. There was a discrepancy in our address, and we notified HP of this over and over, by registered mail, by First Class mail, by telephone, by email, and by fax. The problem was that while we had supplied the correct address on the lease papers, HP decided to use an address supplied to them by the retailer, and absolutely nothing could dissuade them. For months they sent bills and paperwork to the wrong address, even while we virtually screamed at them to correct it. Only when we threatened to bill for our time did HP manage to get the address correct---and then HP claimed they had never once received notification of the correct address. Since about 1980 we’ve sent virtually every written communication by registered mail.
Some months later (still a couple of years ago) we were notified that HP had not received a payment and the account was delinquent. We checked, and found that, as usual, the check for the proper amount had been mailed exactly on time, so as to arrive a week or more before the due date. HP was adamant they had never received it---but mysteriously, when we threatened to bring in our attorney, HP found the check, exactly 30 days, to the day, after they actually received it. A late fee was assessed, even though the mistake was HP’s.
We continued to experience glitches and snafus with HP Financial, including more address snafus, and more payment snafus. To prevent any more mysterious “missing payments” we set up automatic payments through a bank which documents the mailing of said payments. We had learned to expect the worst from HP Financial.
In approximately March of 2004 we received a notice that we were two months delinquent on a particular bill. We had received no notification of this prior. We checked, and, sure enough, the bank had sent both payments exactly on time, and HP had received them and cashed them. At first HP said they had not received them. When we advised that they came directly from a bank and could be verified, HP changed its tune and said they had been credited to the wrong account even though there was no reason to think the payments were meant for that account, and (2) HP mysteriously had not notified us for two months of the missing payments. HP Financial then, amazingly, assessed two whopping “late fees” in the amount of $32.76.
We immediately wrote to HP by registered mail and advised them that if they tried to collect that amount, things would not go smoothly. HP did not reply, but simply removed the funds from our bank account.
We immediately contacted our bank and had the charge credited back.
HP almost immediately removed the funds from our account again.
We then began receiving hang-up calls to one of our cell phones that traced back to HP Financial Services. One of the calls featured a woman who was virtually yelling into the phone. We tried to interrupt numerous times by saying, “Ma’am, ma’am, ma’am,” so as to have a calm conversation with the woman. But she simply wouldn’t shut up. We disconnected the call and advised HP both by fax and by registered mail to cease and desist calling us, and to put any legitimate communication in writing.
Over the next days or week or more, we continued to receive unwanted calls which traced back to HP Financial Services. The problem became so severe that we shut off the phone in question and filed a formal criminal complaint of harassment against HP Financial. That complaint is in process at this time.
In going over our bank records, we find that as of this date HP has not removed a legitimate payment from our account, in the amount of $53.63 for lease # XXXXXXXX. We can only guess it is HP’s hope to thereby claim additional late fees. We have another auto-deduct payment coming up, due about 7-20. We have no way to know if HP will screw that up as well, and thereby try to claim yet more late fees.
At some point one must say enough is enough. We’re way past that point.
HP is herewith notified that it may not deduct any payment from any of our accounts ever again. We are enclosing two checks with this letter, in the amounts of $53.63 for the July, 2004 payment on lease number XXXXXXXXX, and another check in the amount of $165.56, for the July, 2004 payment on lease # XXXXXXXXXXXXXX. If, by the time HP receives this letter, HP has removed either or both of those payments from our account automatically, then HP should credit these new payments to the accounts for the month of August, 2004. HP should notify us by mail in any case, so as to make sure all accounts are up to date, and when any new payments are due on either of these leases, and what the amounts should be. We will then add these payments to our regular automatic bill paying service through the bank, and things had better go smoothly from this point onward.
Taking back control of our bank account from HP Financial is the only way we know of to get this mess straightened out, and to be in a position to (1) get the payments to HP on time, and (2) be able to prove we sent the payments to HP on time, and (3) thereby avoid HP’s fraudulent and fabricated late fees.
This letter, or one like it, will be circulated through the higher echelons of HP Corporate, especially including HP sales. Even though our entire shop runs on HP equipment, we have decided to shop around extensively before ever buying another piece of HP equipment. This has been the most, bar-none, ridiculous experience we have ever endured with any financial company. We thought Paypal was insane---HP Financial has beat ‘em by a mile. We have filed a complaint with the Attorney General---they advise it has been forwarded along up the chain. We will file a formal complaint with HP Corporate, and will continue to post our case on the Internet.
Once again, HP Financial is instructed to never, ever contact us again by phone. Any and all interaction with HP Financial will take place in writing, so that a record exists of every single word.
[Signature]
7-16-04
HP Financial
POB 402582
Atlanta, GA., 30384-2582Hewlett Packard Financial Services
420 Mountain Ave / POB 6
Murray Hill, NJ
07974Enclosed please find a copy of your invoice # XXXXXXXXXX, in the amount of $163.80. This amount has been paid to your New Jersey office by check, delivered on 7-20-04 by registered mail. Due to circumstances explained in the attached letter, HP Financial Services no longer has access to our bank account. This lease (XXXXXXXXX) was supposed to be set up on an automatic pay system through HP. We will no longer allow that arrangement to continue. You will be paid for this account by check, directly from our bank, for the duration of the lease.
Enclosed please find a copy of your invoice # XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX, in the amount of 85.41. The amount of $53.82 is the actual amount of the lease payment. Mysteriously, you have included two “late fees”. This is mysterious because this account also was set up on an HP automatic deduct system. For whatever reason, HP did not deduct this payment from our account---yet it is billing us for “late fees”, and two of them at that! This amount (53.82) has been paid to your New Jersey office by check, delivered on 7-20-04 by registered mail. Due to circumstances explained in the attached letter, and due, specifically, to continual, never-ending screw-ups like this, HP Financial Services no longer has access to our bank account. This lease (XXXXXXXX) was supposed to be set up on an automatic pay system through HP. We will no longer allow that arrangement to continue. You will be paid for this account by check, directly from our bank, for the duration of the lease.
We have recently filed a formal complaint with the GA. Attorney General’s office. They wrote back and said the complaint had been moved up the chain of command and was in process. That complaint detailed yet another situation in which you attempted to charge us two late fees that were not due you. We are drafting a second complaint to the GA. Attorney General’s office to address this second attempt at fraud---and that’s what it is, outright fraud. This is why you no longer have access to our bank account. A criminal complaint of telephone harassment is also in process against your N.J. office.
We suggest you read the attached letter. It has been passed to the higher echelons of HP Sales and HP Corporate. We must now draft yet another complaint to HP corporate to address this second set of bogus late fees. We will probably never buy from HP again.
[Signature]
7-20-04CC: Internet Post; attorney; HP Corporate; HP Sales: Attorney General
HP Financial
POB 402582
Atlanta, GA., 30384-2582Registered Receipt 2103 8555 7490 0667 xxxx
Hewlett Packard Financial Services
420 Mountain Ave / POB 6
Murray Hill, NJ
07974Registered Receipt 2103 8555 7490 3812 xxxx
Re your invoice #XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
You claim you are due a late fee of $15 for lease # XXXXXXXX.
In point of fact, this lease is an auto-deduct payment which you automatically debit directly from our account. If you did not take the payment out on time, that’s your problem, not ours. You were legally prevented from removing money from our bank account on 7-19-04, but that does not affect the payment you are claiming is late. If you have a different explanation for this fee, you are requested to put it in writing and mail it to us at the correct address.
Also, please stop sending bills to an old, incorrect address. You have been advised of our new address in writing, by registered mail, several times, and by regular First Class mail countless times. At this time we are logging every minute spent straightening out your mistakes. When the amount becomes worthwhile, we will bill you. You will refuse to pay. We will sue you in small claims. You will refuse to pay the judgment. And we will attach your property. We look forward to it.
Once again, for the record, by registered mail, our correct billing address is:
XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXThis is the last time you will be advised of this for free.
CC: Attorney, Attorney General, Internet Posting
7-22-04
HP Financial
POB 402582
Atlanta, GA., 30384-2582 CC: by Registered MailHewlett Packard Financial Services
420 Mountain Ave / POB 6
Murray Hill, NJ
079741-281-927-5885
On 7-22-04 we are advised by our bank that you have deposited the sum of $163.80, which is the amount of a payment for lease # XXXXXXXXXX, into our bank account.
We have absolutely no clue why you would do this. Perhaps you are setting us up to charge even more bogus late fees.
Honestly, we have never seen anything like this in our entire lives. We’ve never even read fictional accounts of such bizarre behavior.
We’re going to draft a clear, concise, point-by-point accounting of this mess and begin submitting it to programs like 20-20, and to our local investigative news stations.
On 7-23-04 we will discuss options with our bank to prevent you from putting money INTO our account.
There might have been a point when we would have been willing to just look the other way if you folks finally got these accounts straightened out and stopped this insanity. That point is past.
You will receive a bill for our time and trouble in 4-6 weeks.
We’ve supplied you these instructions in the past, yet you seem incapable of following them. We receive faxes all day, ever day via this method. While you will never, ever again call us and yell into the phone, you are always welcome to write to us via the following fax method, or at the address shown below.
To fax us, follow these instructions: MANUALLY dial XXXXXXXXXXX, LISTEN for a recorded voice that will ask for a password, ENTER the password XXXX. You’ll hear a ring or two, then a FAX TONE. At that time press your SEND key.
Be advised, however, that if we begin receiving harassing faxes, irrational faxes, unproductive faxes, we will cut your access to this fax line and you’ll be reduced to replying to us through our attorney’s office via your attorney.
[Signature]
7-22-04CC: Attorney General, Internet Post
BCC:
HP Financial
POB 402582
Atlanta, GA., 30384-2582 CC: by Registered MailHewlett Packard Financial Services
420 Mountain Ave / POB 6
Murray Hill, NJ
07974
1-281-927-5885On 7-23-04 we have spent 23 minutes researching through our bank a mysterious deposit to our account (on 7-22 in the amount of $163.80). Our advertised work rate is and has been for the past 5 years $55/hr. You will be billed for 23 minutes, pro-rated at that amount.
Here’s the scoop: Our bank believes this deposit is a refund to compensate for the same amount you withdrew earlier in the month. Again, we have no idea why you would be refunding this amount, since the earlier withdrawal was perfectly legitimate, and occurred BEFORE we stopped your access to our account. That this amount was legitimate was explained to you in a registered letter which you have signed for. At this point, we believe that your credit-back of this amount is simply a (another) tactic to further confuse this already confused issue. We see it as a willful act of harassment. We will immediately draft a check to you in the amount of $163.80, and deliver it to you by registered mail. You will be charged for the time it takes us to write this letter, for the time it takes us to draft and mail the check, and for the cost of sending it via registered mail.
There might have been a point when we would have been willing to just look the other way if you folks finally got these accounts straightened out and stopped this insanity. That point is past. You will receive a bill for our time and trouble in 4-6 weeks.
We’ve supplied you these instructions in the past, yet you seem incapable of following them. We receive faxes all day, every day via this method. While you will never, ever again call us and yell into the phone, or crank-call us over and over and hang up, you are always welcome to write to us via the following fax method, or at the address shown below.
To fax us, follow these instructions: MANUALLY dial XXXXXXXXX, LISTEN for a recorded voice that will ask for a password, ENTER the password XXXXXXX. You’ll hear a ring or two, then a FAX TONE. At that time press your SEND key.
Be advised, however, that if we begin receiving harassing faxes, irrational faxes, unproductive faxes, we will cut your access to this fax line and you’ll be reduced to replying to us through our attorney’s office via your attorney.
[Signature]
7-23-04CC: Attorney General, Internet Post BCC:
HP Financial
POB 402582
Atlanta, GA., 30384-2582Registered Mail 2103 8555 7490 0708 xxxx
Hewlett Packard Financial Services
420 Mountain Ave / POB 6
Murray Hill, NJ
07974
1-281-927-5885Registered Mail 2103 8555 7491 6436 xxxx
(1) On 7-23-04 we learned that you made a deposit to our account (on 7-22 in the amount of $163.80). Our bank assures us this was a transaction initiated by you, and not some misguided, automated refund set in motion by the bank’s computers. Again, we have no idea why you would refund this amount, as it is not due us. Because of a couple of years of outrageous experiences like this with you folks, we have already legally prevented you from debiting our bank account(s). This will serve as legal notice that neither may you CREDIT any amount to our bank account(s). Enough is enough. Stay the hell away from our bank account(s). Any further accesses to our account(s), whether to debit, or to credit, will result in further criminal complaints against your offices, and you will be charged for the time it takes us to straighten the matter out, as you are being charged and billed for this. Enclosed (sent to the NJ office), please find a check in the amount of $163.80 which replaces the funds you mysteriously deposited into our account on 7-22-04. We can only assume you did this so you could try to claim that yet another payment was late, thereby justifying yet another bogus “late” fee or two.
You have recently also billed us for two new late fees, due on an account that was set up as an auto-deduct. We have absolutely no clue what that’s about. We have advised you, in writing, via registered mail, that if you did not take the funds out of our account when you were supposed to, you are not entitled to a late fee!
You have also (!) recently advised us that you would like to collect yet another late fee, in the amount of $15. We have written back to you, via registered mail, advising that this, too, was an account that was set up on an auto-deduct system (at least until 7-20-04). Again, if you did not take the funds out of our account when you were supposed to, you are not entitled to a late fee!
If you have a different explanation for all or any of these late fees, you are advised to put your explanation in writing, and to send it to us. We’re confident we can demonstrate that either you were paid on time (read: early), or that it was YOU who elected not to remove the funds from our account on time. We await your explanation.
(4) For perhaps the tenth or fifteenth time---probably the fourth or fifth time, maybe more, via registered mail, we are advising you of our current and correct billing address. We will bill you for time and expenses each and every time you continue to mail correspondence to the incorrect address. We have been fighting you over this issue for over two years. That’s enough.
For the record, one last time, the correct and current billing address for all of the accounts shown above is this:
XXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXThis isn’t rocket-science. Just enter it into your database for each account and USE IT. Please….
(5) We request to know the function of each of the addresses shown at the top of this letter. We need to know which office to contact regarding discrepancies in billing, and we need to know which office to actually send payments to. We have requested this in the past. You have not replied. Surprise. Why do we need to know? At this point it seems a virtual certainty we’ll end up taking you to small claims court. We need to know which office to subpoena. We always wanted to see Atlanta, so we’ll handle that suit in person. If we must sue you in New Jersey, we’ll do it by proxy. Which office is responsible for what?
You have received this letter, as usual, by registered mail. You have signed for it. You cannot claim you didn’t receive it. We suggest you locate a management person who can and will go through this letter carefully, paragraph by paragraph, who is capable of actually understanding what is said, and who is capable of and in a position to resolve this entire mess once and for all. As we’ve said, our bank is set up to begin sending out payments in the amounts shown above, scheduled to arrive on 8-20-04, and continuing thereafter. We need to know:
(1) Are there any discrepancies in the amounts we’ve listed above?
(2) Are there any discrepancies in the dates you will receive these payments?
(3) Counting the payment you received with this letter ($163.80), do you believe any payments are past due or will become past due before you receive the next payments on 8-20-04? If so, what and how much? We’ll take care of it instantly, as we always do.
(3) Are there any other issues with regard to these accounts that need to be addressed? If so, WHAT?
We await your written reply.[Signature]
7-23-04CC: Attorney General, Internet Post BCC:
Hewlett Packard Financial Services
420 Mountain Ave / POB 6
Murray Hill, NJ
07974Proof of delivery: 2103 8555 7491 6467
Enclosed please find two invoices: (1) #XXXXXXXX, in the amount of $180.18, due 9-16-04, and (2) #XXXXXXXXX, in the amount of $70.41, due 9-12-04. These will be paid to you directly from our bank, about a month early, as always (you’ll receive them on or before 8-20).
As usual, both amounts are incorrect, and you know this well.
The proper amounts are as follows:
(1) #XXXXXXXX $163.80
(2) #XXXXXXXXX $55.41The so-called “late” fees on both invoices are bogus. You know this to be fact and we’re confident we can prove it. We have advised you, in writing, via registered mail, more times than we can count now, that these amounts are incorrect and that no late fees are due. You have signed for every single letter. We have advised you, in writing, via registered mail, that if you dispute this, you are welcomed and invited to send us documentation that supports your claim. You have signed for every single letter. You have not replied once as of this date.
The enclosed invoices claim the late charges resulted from late payments on invoices #’s XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX and XXXXXXXXXXXX. --So send us copies of those invoices and we’ll send you either (1) proof they were paid on time or (2) proof that you had access to our bank account at that time, that there was enough in the account to make the payment twenty times over, but that you did not debit our account on time, for whatever mysterious reason. In either case, you’re not entitled to late fees. How many times have we asked you to do this now? Six? Eight? Ten? And all by registered mail. Yet not once have you replied. Not once. What does that say about you? It says you are incompetent or dishonest or, more likely, both.
To the legal mind, this can be construed as nothing short of harassment. That’s certainly our term for it. You have no interest in providing proof in support of your claims, yet you do have an obvious and ongoing interest in continuing to try to bill these erroneous amounts. The two enclosed invoices reference two other invoices for which you claim payment was late. In one case, you have admitted in writing that you received the payments on time, but through your own error, credited them to the wrong account. We have supplied those documents to you and asked for your reply or rebuttal, yet you steadfastly refuse to reply. Instead, you continue to attempt to bill for the same bogus late fees. You have not tried to resolve this matter in anything approaching good faith---in fact, you have crank-called us and hung up so many times that we filed a criminal complaint against you for telephone harassment. Now we feel we have enough documentation to file for general harassment. You know these fees are erroneous. You have been asked repeatedly to supply any documentation or proof at all that supports your claim, yet you repeatedly refuse to do so, and you continue to harass us with erroneous charges. When this comes before a judge, will he rule that you’re merely incompetent, or downright criminal in your actions, or both?
This is the last time we’re going to tell you. If you bill us for bogus charges one more time, we’re going to add a second complaint of harassment to the first through your local police. Our bank has mailed every single check to you on time, and you have cashed every single check well before the due dates. In two of these cases, you claim we were late making payment to you, yet these were accounts in which you had full access to our bank account and which you were supposed to debit automatically. Yet you have the audacity to bill us for late fees!
We believe that you are dishonest in the extreme, that you are intentionally over-billing us month after month as some sort of childish retribution for our telling you what we thought of you. This is the exact legal definition of criminal harassment, and if you continue with this childishness a criminal judge is going to agree with us and find you guilty of harassment and possibly fraud..
This letter adds 19 minutes to the 23 minutes you will be billed for in the next month or two.
In continued disgust,
[Signature]
8-14-04CC: HP Corporate; Internet web page; Attorney General; BCC:
Leena,
We trust your received the transcripts from our bank. If you did NOT receive them, please let us know.
You should be aware that we have begun posting a website detailing our experiences with HP Financial Services. The URL is:
http://www.hewlett-packard-sucks.com/
To say that it will be widely disseminated upon completion would be a gross understatement.
In addition, we are logging every minute of our time expended on this mess. The bill to HP Financial Services as of this date is several hundred dollars. We expect it to rise significantly before this nonsense is finally straightened out.
You should also know that we have begun the long and laborious process of swapping our entire shop from HP equipment, to another manufacturer. This is attributable to our experiences with HP Financial Services. Every HP sales rep in the world is being made of this decision, and our reasons for it.
Thank you,
[Signature]
Faxed to: 732-313-9159 at 12:16 Pacific
8-24-04
HP Finally Replies!
HP Financial Services
420 Mountain Ave.
POB 6
Murray Hill, NJ
07974Registered: 2103 8555 7491 0182 xxxx
Sharon L. Petrosini,
We have received your largely outrageous letter of 9-1-04.
First, let’s address the ”overdue payment” on lease #XXXXXXXXX, in the amount of $116.95. Be advised that, as has been the case in EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE since we first began doing business with HP Financial Services years ago, this payment was made EXACTLY ON TIME. See attached documentation. This is exactly precisely the incompetence that has gotten you into this mess. Some months ago we began documenting our time and expenses required to respond to your dozens upon dozens of accounting errors. A bill will be presented to you when we’re ready. You will refuse to pay it. We will sue you in small claims. You will refuse to pay the judgment, and we will begin attaching your property(s). The time required to draft this letter will be included in those charges. To reiterate: Invoice # XXXXXXXXXXXXX WAS PAID ON TIME. Again, see the attached documentation. We are amazed that you STILL cannot get these accounts straightened out. You respond to your mistakes in accounting by making yet another mistake in accounting? Is there a ground water problem in New Jersey?
To reiterate, we do not believe that any company, anywhere, could “accidentally” be this incompetent. This is simply over the top. We must conclude, therefore, that your continuing refusal to straighten out these accounts is intentional, and as such, is subject to criminal prosecution for, in our view, fraud and/or harassment. You have contacted us once or twice per month, virtually every single month for that past several years, to complain of “late” or “missing” payments. In every single case, every single case we have sent you documentation showing that the accounts actually were paid, usually a month in advance. You became so insistent a couple of months ago that your people began crank-calling us and hanging up, over and over and over, even after we had notified your office that we were going to call the police, and even after we notified your office that we had called the police! What in the name of God actually goes on in your offices in New Jersey?! Never mind---we don’t want to know! We experienced so much trouble with you taking money out of our account that didn’t belong to you, and, amazingly, depositing amount INTO our account that weren’t due us, that we were forced to legally prevent you from accessing our bank account – now, as you know, all payments come to you in paper form, from our bank.
Re the outrageous “warning” in your letter, advising us to stop making publicly, or to remove any existing “defamatory” remarks from our website, go to Hell. Any bad light that is cast upon your company is entirely a result of your own incompetence, dishonesty and stupidity. We simply report the facts as facts, and opinions based on facts, as opinions. If you don’t like the way your company is seen by us or the public, we suggest you change the way your company does business. Our website is reviewed and approved by our attorney – every single word of it. If you feel you’d like to sue us for its content, go for it. That should generate even more publicity. We have posted your letter of 9-1, and this response.
Do not contact us again with stupidity and illegal, harassing (in our opinion) threats of action, when no actionable events have occurred. You may take the apology you’ve offered and shove it up your collective asses. We’ve been struggling with you for years and we have no more patience or tolerance left for you. We see you as the worst – bar none – company we have ever done business with; that, on an order of magnitude.
In continued disgust,
[Signature]
9-2-04CC: Internet Post; Attorney General; HP Sales; HP Corporate
BCC:Encl: Bank transcripts showing payments made on time, every single month.
HP Financial Services
420 Mountain Ave.
POB 6
Murray Hill, NJ
07974 Registered: 2103 8555 7491 0182 xxxxxSharon L. Petrosini,
Re the amounts of $170.77 and $26.14 (total $196.91) due us, you’ve asked in yours of 9-1 if we want it refunded.
Answer: Yes.
We wouldn’t trust you with a rusty nickel.
[Signature]
9-2-04CC: Internet Post; Attorney General; HP Sales; HP Corporate
BCC:
Second Notice:
We have not received your check.
Please Remit
HP Financial Services
420 Mountain Ave.
POB 6
Murray Hill, NJ
07974 Registered: 2103 8555 7491 0182 xxxxxSharon L. Petrosini,
Re the amounts of $170.77 and $26.14 (total $196.91) due us, you’ve asked in yours of 9-1 if we want it refunded.
Answer: Yes.
We wouldn’t trust you with a rusty nickel.
[Signature]
9-2-04CC: Internet Post; Attorney General; HP Sales; HP Corporate
BCC:
To date, 12-27-04, we have received NO further harassment (in our opinion) from HP Financial Services, nor have we received any late fee notices, bogus or otherwise. By the end of January, 2005, we will submit a bill to HP Financial for our time expended in this absolutely outrageous litany of chaos and incompetence. They'll surely refuse to pay, and we'll sue them.
At 11:31 Pacific, on 1-17-05 (a holiday) we received a voice mail message from an HP Financial employee identifying herself as "Bonnie". She claimed that we were overdue on one payment in the amount of $213.
(1) This company has been advised, via registered mail, to cease and desist contacting us by telephone. We have previously filed criminal complaints with this company's local police; this most recent call has earned HP Financial yet another complaint. At some point the local PD will become tired of this and file charges against HP Financial. We will now seek a formal anti-harassment order against HP Financial.
(2) As always, we pulled up the payment record on this account. (a) the payment was not due until 1-22-05. Why is HP Financial calling and referring to it as a delinquent account a week before the payment is even due?
(3) The check for this account was sent by our bank on 1-11-05. It was cashed by HP Financial on 1-14-05.
This is clear, premeditated harassment by HP Financial Services. We have no choice but to initiate a lawsuit without delay. We have never dealt with---in fact we have never read fictional accounts of-- any business one tenth as backward, dishonest, incompetent or unprofessional as HP Financial Services. They qualify for the Guinness Book of World Records.
HP Financial Services
420 Mountain Ave.
POB 6
Murray Hill, NJ
07974 Faxed to: 732-313-9159 on this date
Registered receipt: EO 907 091 xxx USSharon L. Petrosini,
You are aware of our problems with your company spanning three or more years. You have been served with documentation demanding that you (your company) cease and desist calling us by telephone. We have filed at least two formal complaints with your local PD for telephone harassment. We have lodged two complaints with your state’s Attorney General’s office. After three years of your office trying to literally steal (in our opinion) money from us in the form of bogus late fees (some 20 or 30 attempts), we finally received an apology from you---and a refund. In that letter (yours to us of Sept 1, 2004) you apologized and stated that you would see to it this kind of thing never again happened to us, or anyone else. A copy of that letter (and this letter) is posted publicly at the following url and will remain there virtually forever (at least through your lifetime and ours):
http://www.hewlett-packard-sucks.com/
Your letter to us of 9-1-04 might have been a solid gesture. But it was not. In that letter, you miraculously, MIRACULOUSLY tried to state that we were tardy on YET ANOTHER printer bill! As we have done perhaps twenty times in the previous few years, we sent you proof, via registered mail, demonstrating that, in fact, as in EVERY OTHER CASE, the printer payment had been made quite early, and that you (HP Financial) had CASHED THE CHECK long before you wrote to us to say the bill had not been paid.
We came to the conclusion long ago that no company, anywhere in the world, probably not anywhere in this Universe or any other parallel Universe, could be accidentally this backwards, this unprofessional, this dishonest, this underhanded, this damned stupid. If you people were actually this stupid, you would never find your ways home at night. We must, therefore, go with the only other possible conclusion---that you are, in our opinion, intentionally attempting to defraud us. We know of no other possible explanation. When we thought you were merely stupid, we felt pity for you. Now that we understand you are doing these things intentionally, we feel nothing but rage. We’ve had it with you ten times over. Consider this a declaration of legal warfare.
On 1-17-05, at 11:31 a.m. Pacific, we received a voicemail from your company. The caller identified herself as “Bonnie” (no last name given). Bonnie claimed that we are, once again, late on our lease # 500172CD in the amount of $213. Bonnie asked for a return call at 1-800-793-9423.
We are, once again, ONCE AGAIN(!) providing you with proof that this payment was sent on time, that you received it a week early, and that you cashed the check a week before the due date. See below:
At this time, we have decided to bill you for several years of letters like this that you have forced us to write. Microsoft word records the amount of time taken to draft any document created within it. In this case, you have forced us to write 29 letters, 24 of which are posted on the website referenced above. We have drafted and sent 7 faxes, all of which cost us in terms of long distance charges. We have sent 18 of these letters by regular registered mail at a cost of $5.10 each. We have sent 4 of those letters (including this one) by overnight express at a cost of $13.85 each. Here’s how it breaks down, and this is the amount we will be suing you for if you do not make restitution within 30 days:1080 minutes to write letters and/or faxes;
Our posted work rate is $55.00/hr.
18 hours X $55.00 = $990.0018 registered mail charges @ $5.10 each = $91.80
4 overnight express charges @ $13.85 each = $55.40
Total: $1137.20
You will remit this amount within 30 days. Failure to remit will result in a lawsuit to collect these damages and others. This is the amount we will “settle” for out of court, if paid within 30 days. If not received in 30 days, the amount will include attorney’s fees, travel costs, and possibly (hopefully) punitive damages as well.
In addition to the above, and whether you willingly pay the above amount or not, we will file yet another criminal complaint with your local police. We will point out to them that since we have filed two previous complaints, and you have continued to contact us in a manner which is clearly harassing, it’s about time they ACTED. If they fail to act, we will petition judges in your town in New Jersey to grant us “due process”. It’s much like a “citizen’s arrest”, and by-passes local law enforcement. We will file yet another complaint with your state’s Attorney General. And we are researching the exact physical whereabouts of HP’s CEO so that we may serve him/her (via process server) with a copy of the above-referenced website, including this letter. We will as well be emailing the website url (referenced above) to every HP employee for whom we can find an email address. It is important for them to know WHY we will never buy an HP product again, and why we are so vocal in our efforts to warn other unsuspecting businesses about the pitfalls of doing business with HP and more specifically, HP Financial. While HP itself suffers less culpability for this insanity than you do, HP is still culpable in the sense that you are part of their company, and you are obviously totally out of control. Assuming HP knows what you’ve been up to (and trust us, if they don’t, they will) and yet takes no action to correct the problem (you) then HP’s culpability will become equal to yours.
In summary, there is something wrong with you people. Perhaps it’s a ground-water problem in your area which leads to the mental retardation of the populace. You should have it checked out by the EPA.
[Signature]
Once again: You will cease and desist calling us. We will communicate with you ONLY in writing. In the near future that limitation will be modified so as to include ALL contact from YOU; contact will be allowed only through the court.
Sent to HP Board of Directors on 1-17-05:
We are endeavoring to supply a copy of the document(s) listed at the following url to each of you via either restricted delivery USPS mail, or by process server. In the interim, you may wish to familiarize yourselves with this issue. Trust us when we say you will sooner or later be asked to comment on it.
http://www.hewlett-packard-sucks.com/
Sent to Carly Fiorina on 1-17-05:
We are endeavoring to supply a copy of the document(s) listed at the following url to you via either restricted delivery USPS mail, or by process server. In the interim, you may wish to familiarize yourself with this issue. Trust us when we say you will sooner or later be asked to comment on it.
http://www.hewlett-packard-sucks.com/
Hewlett-Packard Company
3000 Hanover Street
Palo Alto, CA 94304-1185 USA
Atten: Carly Fiorina
Via USPS Restricted Delivery Tracking # 2103 8555 7490 3095
We are enclosing one of several dozen letters from us to HP Financial Services in New Jersey. This one letter will summarize our problem.
The entire case – and it’s a doozey – may be scrutinized at the following URL:http://www.hewlett-packard-sucks.com/
We are now in a position to post publicly that your office has been made aware of the issue. If your office does nothing to correct the problem, we will report that fact as well.
[Signature]
1-17-05
Above signed by Lee Eberding.
HP Financial Services Company
POB 6
Murray Hill, NJ.
07974Lee Eberding,
Per yours to us of 2-9-05:
Re your promise to cease and desist contacting us by phone, especially to harass us for so-called "late payments" when, in fact, you have cashed our checks days or weeks earlier, and when, in fact, the payment(s) were not even DUE for another MONTH--- you may shove it. We've received your promises in the past, in writing, on HP's letterhead. They are worthless. We will continue with our efforts to bring criminal charges of telephone harassment against you. We've courteously given you years of opportunities to make good on your word; you've failed miserably, repeatedly, and utterly. Your "word" now has less than zero value to us---in fact to receive it is an annoyance.
Re you refusal to compensate us for the hours we've invested trying to correct YOUR mistakes, let us see if the judge agrees with your appraisal of the situation. We expect to have you served within 60 days.
We are no longer willing to settle for the sum of $1137.20.
As always, you may peruse all or most documents in this case at the following url:
http://www.hewlett-packard-sucks.com/
In continued and perpetual disgust,
2-11-05
4-14-05 -- Yet another reason to avoid HP equipment and software:
We run an HP Designjet 500PS for particular jobs. This printer comes with a cheap and cheesy RIP program for processing jobs. Several days ago, while in the middle of a huge job and for no apparent reason, the RIP program stopped running. It would hang forever on the "processing" stage. Of course this was just another in a long tradition of HP software and driver problems. We sighed, uninstalled the software, reinstalled it, and tried to send a new print job. No luck. So we uninstalled everything---the print drivers, the software, the hot folder, everything. And reinstalled. It still wouldn't run. So we uninstalled in Safe Mode (WinXP), then reinstalled in safe mode. Same problem. We then had no choice but to suspend our huge rush job and begin researching the net and HP forums for a solution. Nine hours later, we still had no clue what could be causing the problem. We could still print directly to the port, but not through the RIP, and printing through the RIP was absolutely required for the job we were doing. We therefore began emailing HP, asking for detailed, specific instructions on how to uninstall and remove every single trace of their program, so that we could be sure we were reinstalling on a clean slate. We specifically asked for the locations of every registry entry that HP's software had made, so we could manually remove them and reinstall the software fresh. After a number of exchanges with HP Support, in which we repeatedly asked them for detailed uninstall directions, and which they answered with their usual boilerplate nonsense, we finally ramped up the urgency and specificity of our request. Here's HP's reply, and our final reply to them below that. We are now into this problem about 36 hours. There is no relief in site. We had to bring in another printer to finish our rush job:From HP: We are not permitted to assist you in altering your registry in any way. Please contact your computer manufacturer for assistance with your registry.
To HP: We cannot refer to the computer manufacturer for information on altering the registry because that is the domain of the OPERATING SYSTEM manufacturer. But we cannot pose this question to Microsoft either because Microsoft would have no way of knowing which entries had been placed into the registry by YOUR SOFTWARE. The fact that you do not understand this excruciatingly simple concept tells us that you are utterly incompetent. We are not and we have not asked you for instructions on altering our registry. We are merely asking you for a list of entries that YOUR SOFTWARE has made to our registry. A request doesn't GET any more specific or simple than this. Once again HP has provided us with buggy software, and has provided absolutely no support. This exchange will be posted publicly by day's end. Once again, thanks for absolutely nothing. We will now begin the process of purging out all of our HP equipment in favor of other, more competent manufacturers.
This is one worthless company. We recommend to ALL our readers and customers that they avoid HP equipment like the proverbial plague. The aggravation and lost time simply isn't worth it.
We thought the above incident was closed. However, an hour after sending our reply, we received YET ANOTHER email from HP Support, as follows:
From HP: Please retain this line in all replies: <ID:693743-805770394>
It would be greatly appreciated if you would be professional in the language you use when sending us a message. We reserve the right not to respond to people misusing our services.
We apologize for any inconvenience, but we are prohibited from manually altering your registry. Making any intentional change to the registry is considered an alteration.
Once again, THIS is the kind of outrageously ineffective (Read: STUPID) support you can expect from Hewlett Packard. We currently run roughly $30,000 worth of HP equipment. --And this is the best they can do for us. Would we ever buy another piece of HP equipment? One would have to be insane to think we might.
To HP: Again, your response has been posted publicly at the url shown in the previous email. With every reply you detract from HP's credibility. Since you have nothing of value to contribute to our problem, you will herewith cease and desist contacting us. We will (1) file a formal complaint by registered mail against you. We will (2) send HP a bill for our time in unravelling this mess. HP will of course refuse to pay, and we will sue HP by proxy in small claims court. All you had to do to avoid this was to escalate the matter up the chain and PROVIDE AN ANSWER. We're sorry that, as usual, you could not be bothered to do that. Again, we've had enough of you. You WILL cease and desist contacting us. Further unwanted contact will cause a criminal complaint to be filed against you. We have absolutely had enough of you.
4-17-05:
We're still unable to get HP's RIP software to run. We decided to circumvent the entire issue and order from HP their updated RIP software. We did so, paid our money, and paid for Fed-Ex Overnight delivery. Amazingly, HP actually shipped the disc---but (you already saw this coming, didn't you) HP shipped the WRONG disc. They charged us $19 for the regular printer drivers which can be downloaded from their site for free, and they did not include any RIP software whatsoever. Of course HP won't answer their phones on the weekend, so we must wait until next week to even begin arguing with them. That'll probably take the better part of the week. Then, maybe, they'll ship out the right product. Or not. If they do ship the right product, maybe it will work. Or not. If it doesn't work, maybe HP will help us. Or not. This is a company to stay away from. We really don't know of one single task this outfit can properly or competently perform.
Hewlett Packard Financial Services by Registered Mail 0103 8555 7494 3524 xxxx
420 Mountain Ave / POB 6
Murray Hill, NJ
07974This simple request has been sent to the Atlanta office twice, and to your office once, all with no reply. Surprise.
This particular copy comes to you via registered mail so that you may not claim you didn’t receive it. You may also access a copy at any time, at the following URL, which documents all prior interaction with your company:http://www.hewlett-packard-sucks.com/
Our question to you, posed repeatedly over the past months, is excruciatingly simple. As usual, we’re sorry your office cannot even handle this small piece of business.
We are simply asking for the termination dates of the following leases.
That’s it! That’s all we want. Isn’t it amazing that it takes at least four formal letters over the period of nearly six months, to obtain this information.lease # 500XXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX
lease # 500XXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX
lease # TF-EFXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX
lease # 5001XXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXWe await your written reply.
In perpetual disgust,
4th mailing: 6-20-2005
CC: Attorney General, Internet Post
BCC:
Above signed by Ida Bruno-Edelmann
Above refers to email address: lynne.wyckoff@hp.com
HP Financial
emailed to: lynne.wyckoff@hp.comAs an attachment to this email please find a zip containing three documents on your letterhead, from you to us. The first document states that our printer lease #TF-EF39XXX matured in June of 2005. The next two documents are bills for September 2005 for this same printer. You also billed us in July and August for this same printer which was paid off in June.
Please understand that this represents the 23rd, 24th, and 25th time in the past three years you have attempted to fraudulently extract funds from us which we did not owe, and we believe this represents the 37th or 38th time we've been forced to set the record straight with you imbeciles. We have been forced to refute your bogus charges in 18 letters sent to you via registered mail. In each case you have admitted the error, and apologized, though grudgingly. We recently billed you over $1000 for our documented time in responding to your continued madness. You have refused to pay and we are now seeking an attorney in your area to file suit. The time it has taken us to write this email will be added to that bill.
We have filed four criminal complaints against you with your local law enforcement (this will make five). We have filed three formal complaints against you with your state's Attorney General (this time will make four). We have delivered to HP's CEO an accounting of this by process server (we will deliver this document to your new one by process server as well). We have delivered a handful of cease and desist letters to you by registered mail (add this one to your growing list). We have sent copies of the website which details our experiences with you (http://www.hewlett-packard-sucks.com/)
to every HP sales rep we could find an address for (about 20 of them). This email is now displayed on that website.And still you attempt to virtually extort funds from us which we do not owe you.
Please do not make us book a flight to visit you in your office. It will not be pretty or fun.
Enough is enough. You are undertaking this action as a form of criminal harassment. You will cease and desist AGAIN.
And then you will, quite bluntly, go f_ck yourselves. Don't like our language? --Then please forward a copy of this entire email to someone you think will believe that you haven't earned it and don't deserve it. There is something wrong with you people as human beings, and HP's upper management will be made aware of it in the most public of ways.
[signature]
8-20-05----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Up to this date we had received virtually no communication from HP Financial Services, except bin the form of activities which seem clear to us to be nothing more than telephone harassment. Below is the first meaningful communication in roughly three or four YEARS of fighting with this absolutely unbelievable company.
HP Finally Replies!
HP Financial Services
420 Mountain Ave.
