We've done business with Paypal virtually since they started up. In that time we've had about six Paypal accounts, four of them business accounts. We've cancelled each and every one of them for the same reasons: Paypal dishonesty and incompetence. In 2004 Paypal "lost" $660 of ours -- customers tendered it to Paypal, but it never came out the other end into our accounts. Paypal refused to respond. We threatened to sue. They laughed. We did try to sue, but couldn't figure out a way to bring the matter to small claims court in our state, instead of theirs. We could have filed in District or Superior court, and spent $10,000 to recover $600, but of course didn't. Paypal counts on things like that.
When eBay bought Paypal, we instantly dropped our Paypal account. eBay is, of course, the most incompetent and dishonest business in the world. In no way did we want to be associated with eBay, not even indirectly. For the next several years we occasionally saw an item on eBay that we couldn't live without, so we'd have friends or family bid and pay for us. But in 2007, when we tried to accomplish an eBay sale for a camera, we discovered that all friends and family had also dumped their eBay accounts, and we had no choice but to open another eBay account to bid. We won the auction, and then realized it was something of a pain to try to pay for the item without using Paypal. We were aware that Paypal had been nailed by one or several very large, nasty class action suits, and we figured they MUST have cleaned up their act by now. Right? RIGHT? RIGHT?
So, fools that we are, we opened another Paypal account.
My God we are stupid, stupid sons of bitches.
Our troubles with Paypal started before we'd even finished setting up the account. We tried to add a debit card but received the Paypal error message "This card is already associated with another account; you can only associate a card with one Paypal account."
Huh?
The card was brand new, only a month old. How could it be associated with another account? So, though we were loathe to do it, we emailed "Paypal Support". As I say, we are stupid, stupid sons of bitches.
We laid the matter out before Paypal, explaining everything as clearly as this editorial, and we supplied them the account number and details for the debit card in question. We were pretty sure Paypal wouldn't screw it up, because it was SO simple. Here's our first email to Paypal:
Form Message
customer subject:
Your system shows our debit card assigned to some other account customer message: Additional Information: 'Trying to add our debit card to this new Paypal account; your system says this card is already assigned to another account. That's impossible because this is a new card. It's always something with Paypal -- and this kind of crap is why we closed our account a year ago. Please don't make us regret opening a new one. It's a mastercard, # ################.'
In about 48 hours we heard back from Paypal as follows:
I understand your frustrations regarding your credit card. In researching your concern, I have come across an account that was recently set up with your card number. Have you ever used an email ending with yahoo.com? Are you familiar with washingtonfairsandfestivals.com? Please feel free to phone us if you need additional assistance.
Double huh?!
What in hell were they talking about?
But we did a little research, and it all came back to us in a flash. A few weeks prior we had directed an employee to pay for an online subscription to WashingtonFairsandFestivals.com. We had her use the debit card in question. We sat there and watched her throughout the simple transaction, and at no point did it appear she was doing anything except paying $14 and some change for a one-time purchase through Paypal. She didn't have a Paypal account, and we didn't either. We were just paying for a service one time. Her email address ends in @Yahoo.com.
That employee had since left, and we didn't think we had a way to contact her. But still, this wasn't her fault, it was Paypal's fault. Somehow Paypal had initiated a whole new account for her, rather than to just accept the lousy $14 as a one time payment. Typical Paypal, always sneaky. So we wrote back to Paypal as follows:
I had an employee set up an account for washingtonfairsandfestivals.com, and I allowed her to put the charge onto my company credit card (the one in question here). But there was NEVER an authorization for that card to be set up on her account for any purpose except to make that one purchase. That employee no longer works here and I have no way to contact her. That card is NOT authorized to be used on her account, or with any other account except mine -- which I am trying to set up now. Please advise how we can immediately "un-associate" that card with her account.
Still simple so far, correct? We then received the following reply from Paypal:
Thank you for contacting PayPal.
Hello I hope all is well with you, my name is Kristian. I will be more than willing to assist you with your question. I apologize for the inconvenience of having to contact us to resolve your concern regarding your credit card.
To remove a credit or debit card from your PayPal account, please follow these simple steps:
1. Log in to your account at https://www.paypal.com/
2. Click 'Profile'
3. Click the 'Credit Cards' link in the 'Financial Information' column
4. Select the card to be removed
5. Click 'Remove'
6. Click 'Remove' again
Please note: If you remove your only credit card and you have a confirmed bank account, the Instant Transfer payment option will no longer be available. Payments from your bank account will be sent as eChecks, which take 3 to 4 business days to clear.
We appreciate your patience and understanding regarding this matter, and wish you continued success on PayPal.
Sincerely,
Kristian
Well, we're sure "Kristen" is very cute and very yuppy and very self-involved; she likely flips her hair alot and says "Kewl" every chance she gets, but as a customer service rep KRISTEN SUCKS. She obviously hadn't even begun to READ THE PROBLEM, let alone understand it. It was all coming back now, the utter incompetence of this company, the BS, the endless emails trying to solve a simple problem, the eternal misunderstanding. It was like trying to do business with a bunch of idiot college kids in Santa Barbara. We thought: The insanity begins....." This was the EXACT and PRECISE reason we had cancelled every other Paypal account we'd ever had. We fired off the following to "Kristen", knowing full-well she'd only screw it up..
We're sorry that, as usual, you cannot be bothered to even read our email or to comprehend the problem. We have cancelled Paypal accounts in the past because of the incomprehensible stupidity and unprofessionalism of Paypal's staff. We're teetering on the fine edge of cancelling this one as well. You have replied by supplying instructions to remove a credit card from our account. This demonstrates to all (and this is being posted publicly, word for word) that you HAVE NOT EVEN READ THE DESCRIPTION OF OUR PROBLEM. What in God's name is the matter with you people? We haven't even finished setting up this account and already we're disgusted and enraged. This is a simple problem -- at least it was until you got ahold of it. We're not going to waste time explaining this to you all over again. Go back and ACTUALLY READ the description of this problem, and respond with an APPROPRIATE ANSWER. If English is not your language, kick it up to someone who does speak English. Would you rather respond to the Consumer Affairs Division of the Attorney General? Yes? Then just keep doing what you're doing. You never cease to amaze us. To fulfill your job function YOU. MUST. READ.
Kristen apparently gave up on that pesky English thing and went away, and in her place we got "Toni", as follows:
Hello my name is Toni. I am sorry to hear about this situation, and understand your frustration and concern regarding adding a Credit Card to your PayPal Account. ...first I am sorry that this issue was not taken care of for you the first time. In reviewing your account, we didn't receive sufficient information to proceed with your question. Please provide us with additional information such as: Can you please provide the Credit Card number that you are trying to add?
Our angry reply to "Toni":
This absolutely boggles the mind.
The card number in question was supplied to you in our very first exchange, and the problem was explained to you in minute and painstaking detail. You do understand, we hope, that this entire exchange is being posted publicly, so your potential customers (victims) can see how you fail to handle even the simplest, most basic problems? At this point we will not interact with you except in writing, because we need this to be documented from start to finish. Once again, for the record, please go back and ACTUALLY READ this series of exchanges. All the information you require has already been supplied to you, INCLUDING THE DEBIT CARD NUMBER. Prior to this email we told you to go back and READ what was explained to you, but again you have chosen not to do so. My God, you people could lead a Saint to a fit of apoplexy. One more screw-up and we will jerk this account and make it our CRUSADE to warn the general public about Paypal. You must READ in order to UNDERSTAND. Get it? You must ACTUALLY READ the explanation of the problem, and then make sure you UNDERSTAND what you've read, and then FORMULATE a course of action to SOLVE THE PROBLEM. Please, please try to grasp this concept.
In disgust,
We didn't receive a reply at all from "Toni" (too busy, we might surmise). Instead we recieved the following boilerplate email from Paypal's server:
Thank you for contacting PayPal Customer Service. In an effort to assist you as quickly and efficiently as possible, please direct all customer service inquires through our website. Click on the hyperlink below to go to the PayPal website. After entering your email address and password into the Member Log In box, you can submit your inquiry via our Customer Service Contact form. If you indicate the type of question you have with as much detail as you can, we will be able to provide you with the best customer service possible. If your email program is unable to open hyperlinks, please copy and paste this URL into the address bar of your browser. https://www.paypal.com/ewf/f=default
"Toni" had simply bailed on us. What a piece of human garbage. Paypal will probably give him/her a raise.
Our final attempt at solving this absurdly simple problem is as follows. We were able to find our old employee, and she agreed that she didn't have a Paypal account. We watched her try to go into Paypal using her one and only email address for the past five years. Since she didn't have a Paypal password (because she didn't have a Paypal account) she clicked on "Forgot My Password". Paypal is then supposed to email your password to your registered email address. Instead, Paypal simply spit forth an error saying there is no Paypal account associated with that email address, and refused to send any forgotten password. The following is a bit cryptic because Paypal doesn't give you enough room to really explain anything:
Trying to add my own debit card to new Paypal account. Card is 53221811xxxxxxxx. Paypal error reads "card already associated with another account". This is untrue. Card was used ONCE by an employee to subscribe to a WashingtonFairs website, but was NOT registered with any Paypal account. The employee, under my supervision, was XXXXX x xxxxxxxx, xxxxx xxxxx Dr D---, XXXXXXX, XX xxxxx, Cell: xxx-xxx-xxxx, xxxxxxxxxxx@yahoo.com. She's unaware of any account in her name and has tried to log in using that email and the "password forgotten" link. Paypal spits back an error saying there is no account under that email address, which she already knew. I want this debit card number un-associated with ANY other Paypal account. I have 10 days invested in trying to get a straight answer from your people. Next stop: The Attorney General. I sent you the card number, you replied by asking for the card number. 10 days of this crap! Free my debit card NOW. This is posted publicly on the web.
We don't expect to receive any kind of even remotely intelligent or rational reply from Paypal, or perhaps no reply at all, as in the above instance, and we're not going to waste any more time waiting; this goes out to the Washington and California Attorneys General on 8-6-07, and they (Paypal) can respond to THEM. God knows Paypal knows the drill by now.
The moral is simple: Avoid Paypal. They're documentably stupid; they are in our view blatantly dishonest; they are documentably incompetent; even losing a class-action suit and having the attorney general DEMAND that they clean up their act and begin supplying at least mediocre customer service, has not improved them. Paypal is incapable of learning. Paypal is a liability to every single one of its customers. Paypal is a write-off. Paypal should be shut down for good. It hgas never improved; it will never improve; it is incapable of improvement.
It's official: Paypal Sucks.
UPDATE:
Paypal is now refusing to respond to us in any way, shape or form. We've had no choice but to cancel our debit card as follows:
Thank you for submitting your message.
Your reference number is K2365054446Bxxxxx.
Full Name: XXXXXXX XXXXXXXX
Email Address: XXXXXXXXXXXX
Subject: Business Online Banking Comments / Inquiry:
Our debit card (532218xxxxxxxxx) that is associated with this checking account, has been found to be associated with a Paypal account that does not belong to us. The person whose Paypal account has registered our debit card is known to us. She has contacted Paypal repeatedly to ask how this happened; Paypal has refused to respond to her at all (not once). We have also contacted Paypal many, many times over the past week to ask how this could have happened and to demand that the card be un-associated with any Paypal account except ours. In reply, Paypal will only send us ridiculous things like boilerplate messages describing the steps to add a card to our account (kind of like trying to interact with WAMU). At this time no bogus charges have been made against our debit card, but since we do not have full control over this card, and since Paypal in unwilling to respond in ANY kind of even semi-responsible manner, we have no choice but to report this debit card as compromised. It must therefore be cancelled without delay, and we ask that a new debit card be issued and sent to the registered address for this bank account as soon as possible. Paypal is absolutely famous for this kind of crap, and we have filed against them with the Attorney General, as have so many tens of thousands before us.
We recieved another brainless reply from Paypal as follows:
Thank you for contacting PayPal. Thank you for providing this information to us regarding your Mastercard xx12 being registered on another account. I show that the account is registered in your name under the email address casper4991@yahoo.com. Unfortunately, as a user initiated system we cannot add or remove information from a customers account. If you can log in to the account under that email address you can close the account, which will remove the credit card from the system. You may need to use the forgot password process if the employee did not give you the password to the account. In order to prevent any unauthorized charges from being made on the account and to that card, I have limited the access to the account. This will require that you change the password/security questions and confirm your location. At this time I have canceled the subscription to prevent it from being renewed automatically. We appreciate your patience and cooperation during this process.
Our apoplectic reply:
We're sorry that after nearly two weeks, countless emails, a posting of this problem on the Internet and a complaint to the Attorney General, you STILL refuse to actually read or comprehend the problem. This is one for Guinness. We don't expect you to comprehend this email either, but we're continuing to document this just so the public can see what happens when they ask Paypal Customer Service for help. As stated to you previously, we have contacted the person who owns the email address xxxxxxxx@yahoo.com. She has gone to Paypal and entered that email address, and then clicked on "Forgot my password". You are then supposed to email her the password at that email address. Instead, she gets an error stating that there is no Paypal account registered with that email address, and of course no password is sent to her. No account was opened in my name. I sat there and watched every move my employee made while making this one time payment to washingtonfairs. There was absolutely NOTHING that indicated to either of us that anyone was opening any kind of account, as neither of us wanted a Paypal account at that time. We were simply sending $14 to this company for a subscription. We cannot begin to imagine how that ended up opening an account under ANYONE's name. Wouldn't you have sent a number of "welcome" and confirmation emails to the xxxxxxxx email address? Not a single one was received. At this time we have had no choice but to cancel our debit card through our bank. Your days and days of screwing around, steadfastly refusing to actually READ this problem and SOLVE it, have forced us to do that. Since we have countless automatic payments using that debit account, we are now facing a solid half a day of notifying each company that our debit card number has changed. It will be a week to ten days before we can even send them the new number, as our bank takes that long to issue a new card. This is YOUR FAULT, because you REFUSE TO READ. As always, this is posted to the net, and will be appended to our complaint to the Attorney General. There is truly something wrong with you people, and this entire escapade documents it clearly. This entire fiasco, from beginning to end, is documented at the following url. We imagine you simply don't care, as it's only one more site in a sea of some 1.7 MILLION Paypal Sucks sites. Every email we've sent you, and every email we've received from you, is documented in chronological order on that site. It makes you look as though Paypal is utterly and demonstrably insane. http://www.joke-newspapers.com/bad_businesses/paypal_sucks/paypal_sucks.html
As an aside, we have now notified Washington Mutual Bank three (3) times in writing, using their secure server (yes, we've saved screen-shots), that this debit card has been compromised; we instructed them to cancel the card immediately and issue a new one. Washington Mutual has refused to respond to us in any way, and the card remains active as of 8-4-07. Welcome to Planet of the Apes.
The above email to Paypal (in blue italics) produced the following response from Paypal. Hang on to your hats, folks. This is a doozey.
My name is Sally and I work for the office of Executive Escalations. I want to thank you for contacting PayPal. Your concerns were recently forwarded to our office for review in the hope that we might be able to assist you further. Our security procedures limit credit card registrations to one PayPal account at a time. If your credit card was previously registered to another PayPal account, you will need to regain access to that account in order to use the credit card on a different PayPal account. PayPal accounts are registered to unique email addresses. Please review your records to determine what email address you were using at the time your previous PayPal account was established. You will be able to login to the previous account using the email address and password you registered at that time. If you are unable to recall the password for the account, you can use the "Forgot your password?" link to regain access to the account. If the original account was set up by a family member or other individual, you may need to have them assist you in gaining access. Once you have gained access to your old account, please make a note of the email address and password on the account. It will then be in your best interest to close your new account and make any necessary changes to your profile in the old account. Once you've made the needed updates, you will be able to make payments from the old account. To close your PayPal account, please follow these steps:
1. Log in to your account at https://www.paypal.com/
2. Click the "Profile" subtab.
3. Click the "Close Account" link located under "Account Information" and follow the online instructions.
After closing the new account, login to the original account and update any information that has changed using the "Profile" tab under "My Account". You can change email addresses, phone numbers, street addresses and billing addresses for credit cards within this area, so you will be able to make this account fully current with your personal information. If you are unable to determine the email address on the old account, or cannot successfully regain access to that account, please contact us by telephone for further assistance. To view PayPal's phone number and hours of operation, please log in to your account or visit https://www.paypal.com and click the "Help" link in the upper right corner. Click the "Contact Us" link in the lower left, then click the "Service Center" link under the "Help By Phone" heading. In order to further assist in accessing and closing the account with your credit card information, please contact PayPal using the email address listed on the account. At that point, we will be able to address any problems you are having with that account. PayPal is an active member of many consumer protection agencies. As such we recognize the valuable role they play in helping members of the business community and their customers come together to resolve the difficulties that sometimes arise in the course of a business relationship. Should you find it necessary to escalate your concerns, we will gladly respond to all inquiries. I sincerely apologize for the difficulties you have encountered while using PayPal.
If you have further questions, please email crme@paypal.com.
Sincerely, Sally Executive Escalations PayPal, an eBay Company
At this point we feel weak, dazed and confused -- which is what Paypal probably wants. We fired back the following, knowing full well it will never, ever be understood or comprehended by a single Paypal entity. Never:
Once again you have completely and utterly refused to reply to the question put to you or to solve the problem. At this point we conclude that no business on the face of the earth could accidentally be this stupid and obtuse, and that you MUST be doing this on purpose, as a joke. We have explained to you over and over and over that no Paypal account was intentionally opened using the casper email address. Even if it was, we should be able to go into Paypal, enter the email address, and click on "forgot password". Paypal should then email us the password to the casper address so we can enter that account and disassociate the debit card in question. We have told you over and over and over again that when we try to do this, Paypal spits out an error saying there is no account under the casper email address, and so naturally it refuses to send a password for an account that does not exist. We have explained this to you over and over and over and over, and so what do you do? You reply each and every time by telling us to go to Paypal and enter the casper email address to obtain the forgotten password. Obviously you think this is funny. We assure you, the rest of the world does not. As always, this is posted publicly, and is being appended to our complaint to the Attorney General. There is truly something mentally wrong with you people on a collective basis. There is no other possible conclusion.
CONCLUSION: We cancelled the card in question
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